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 America's current gun problem.

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Skelter
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PostSubject: America's current gun problem.   Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:23 pm

What is it with all the shooting lately? Every time I go to a news website, there is always a shooting. I've always been pro guns, but lately I think We should Change our gun laws, a total overhaul is needed. Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: America's current gun problem.   Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:27 pm

I'm anti-gun... Knives are more than enough for self defense...

Shootings rarely happen in countries with strict gun laws, so the best argument against strict gun laws, a blackmarket for guns, is still a weak argument.

Plus you know how much guns hurt when you're shot? It's a rather cheap move to shoot someone, as well.

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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: America's current gun problem.   Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:45 pm

I totally agree. I personally don't think anyone in this country needs firearms aside from military and police. It is unnecessary. It is an argument of necessity vs. desire. Take away the necessity, guns are pointless to own for protection. As far as desire, well people don't need to hunt or go to shooting ranges. We have grocery stores, butchers, and farms to take care of meat. People don't need to hunt for sport or for pelts.

I mean yeah, sure, you can make the argument of destroying certain freedoms, but then we could go off on all kinds of other subjects on hindering freedom such as drug use, prostitution, etc... etc... but most drug users and people wanting sex don't go killing a buncha innocents and kids for it either. Most gun owners and 2nd amendment supporters don't do that either, but for the small percentage of the population that does, I must ask, how many more children need to die before we deem that guns aren't necessary overall? Even if one child a year dies from one gun nut, that's too many IMO. And we are up what now? Hundreds in the last decade? May not seem like a lot in the "grand scheme" of things and the overall populace of the planet, but c'mon... These are hundreds of innocent children who will never get a chance to grow up and live a real life. If you look at it in terms of low numbers compared to the overall populace, that seems a little cold hearted to me. They sure wouldn't see it that way if it was one of their kids that got murdered in cold blood. And if you want to argue that a small percentage of drug users hurt innocent people and children too, well that's true as well, not gonna deny that, but take away the guns and those drug related homicides will also decrease drastically. Although you don't need a gun to harm a child, especially an infant/toddler, but those people are mentally deranged anyway, with or without guns, and we aren't here to discuss drugs, we are here to discuss guns.

Forget mentally deranged people... What about accidental shootings? Perfectly sane people who accidentally shoot themselves or others, not to mention kids who don't know any better, playing with real guns they find in their own houses. Banning guns will make that drastically decrease as well. What about stray bullets striking children and innocent adults when these rival gangs start shooting randomly at each other? It's getting insane.

Then you have people who think that banning guns makes you anti-American because of the 2nd amendment. I'm sure you have all heard these arguments before, but the 2nd amendment was created during a time when A. we were fighting for our land from English government oppressors; B. there were a lot less people in this country; C. it took time to fire a shot, reload your musket, and fire another round, not like today with automatic machine guns, AK-47's, rapid reload pistols, armor piercing rounds, etc... The 2nd amendment is useless in these modern times knowing the differences in those 3 points. My only response to people who call me an anti-American idiot is simply this: If it makes me anti-American to want to save innocent lives, especially that of children, then I am anti-American and proud of it. But of course I am not anti-American, rather I am for saving lives ultimately. And while not all gun supporters are rednecks, I just find a good majority of them are gun toting rednecks who don't even know the history of this country much less what it means to be "anti-American".

Then the next argument. Being armed in case we ever need to defend ourselves against a U.S. government gone crazy and starts killing off it's citizens. First of all, that sounds like paranoid delusion, but more so, IF that were to ever happen.... Um.... We are fucked. Sorry to say it so bluntly, but pistols, and even armor piercing automatic machine guns and shit won't hold a candle to what the military is capable of with missiles, tanks, bombs, drones, etc... So with or without guns if our government ever went batshit insane and tried to kill all of it's citizens, we are screwed either way. Rather than try to fight back with arms that amounts to throwing rocks at Superman, you'd be better spending your time getting the fuck out of the country before they blow you up.

Lastly, you have all these Americans who ignore the fact that in other countries that have banned guns and have waaaaay less gun crimes, such as England and Australia are doing waaaay better. They all feel that banning guns isn't the answer because if people want guns badly enough they will buy them off the black market. While that may be true, it will still make it harder to secure guns overall, thus A LOT less people will get them. Same story for England and Australia. The gun crime they do have that rarely happens, the gunmen get through the black market. But the fact remains they have much less gun crimes to the point it is nearly non existent. Funny how that works. Yet Americans feel that won't work here. I dunno what makes them think America is so different from those other countries, but I am pretty sure it would work out the same way over here. Not to mention these teenagers, these kids who secure guns and shoot up their classmates and teachers, aren't buying guns off the black market. They don't have the money or the connections to do so, so where do they get them? Their parents gun cabinets is the most viable answer. Take those away and that equates to these kids not getting their hands on guns very easily at all.

I mean it is a very controversial subject and there is no perfect solution, not to mention people bickering over things I mentioned in this post such as the whole drug use arguments, and being anti-American for wanting to abolish the 2nd amendment for the sake of saving lives. But banning guns is the best solution IMO. I will say it again, if that makes me an evil, unpatriotic, anti-American scumbag for wanting to save lives, especially that of kids, I will gladly wear that ignorant title on my sleeve. Small percentages being to blame for gun crime or not, the death of one innocent child is more than enough to say it's time to make a change. Update the amendments to serve today's modern times.
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PostSubject: Re: America's current gun problem.   Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:59 pm

I am a gun supporter. I came from a family that was always into guns and hunting. I don't agree with your points at all Derek. I don't think we need to ban guns because of a few psychotic people blasting away. You said it yourself that they are deranged and would hurt people with or without guns. If they can't get guns they will get other weapons or even make there own bombs like those teenagers who would make there own pipe bombs and stuff with the old anarchist cookbook. I'm also not a gun toting redneck and my family was always about gun safety and responsibility first and formost. Everyone should be that way and most gun owners are. The majority shouldnt be punished because of the acts of a few. My heart goes out to all the kids who have been killed but if not killed by a gun they would have been killed by some other weapon by lunatics.
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PostSubject: Re: America's current gun problem.   Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:16 am

Ahh, yes, but without guns, a lot less would have been killed. It takes longer to stab people and such and is easier to restrain someone with any other weapon other than a gun. I am sure you can agree with that... Not to mention distance issues.

So, it all boils down to the simple point, efficient killers with guns vs. not so efficient killers in regards to speed, accuracy, and distance... These are all things you need to think of.

Obviously there are more responsible gun owners out there than irresponsible gun owners, but I am sorry, my stance will not change when innocents, especially children are caught up in it all... Deranged or not, guns are unnecessary. I am not trying to sound rude or condescending here, but if guns are a big part of your life I suggest new hobbies of less lethal force.

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PostSubject: Re: America's current gun problem.   Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:48 am

Like I said in my opening post, I used to be pro-guns, but mostly because I like them as a sport. Going to the range, hunting, and just messing around. Sadly, people are not responsible enough to have the right to own guns. Not everyone can be a responsible gun owner, every single day there are thousands of shootings, shooting accidents or deaths that somehow guns where involved.

It doesn't help that when some crazy assholes goes on a rampage and stars blowing people away, the first thing the media does is blame their childhood, or games that person played. Half the times these people get reduced sentences because they had such a tough up-bringing or somehing. It's disgusting. If these people were made an example off, we would have less crimes.
Call me an asshole all you want, but when someone opens fire on innocent people, they should't even get a trial. They should be taken out back and nailed to a wall and left to die. Why should my tax money par for their trial, jail time, food and medical expenses??? It's maddening.

There countries where nobody has guns, not even the regular police. The shootings in these countries are extremely rare. Point is, the constitution needs to be revamped. People in this country have proven their are not responsible enough to own guns.
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PostSubject: Re: America's current gun problem.   Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:45 pm

I'm pro gun. Mostly due to being around people who carry them all the time. IMO its usually a small group that wrecks it for everyone else. If everyone was carrying, than I doubt anyone would try to open fire. Its the whole idea of if I shot someone, than someone will shot me back.
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PostSubject: Re: America's current gun problem.   Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:00 pm

So the answer is everyone should all carry guns? I don't agree with that. More of anything dangerous is never the answer to lessen said danger. Crazy deranged people and people who insist on killing will still do so whether others are armed or not. During times of panic, many people would just end up shooting even more people by mistake, and the cycle would just keep going. Even if everyone took gun safety/training courses, which would never happen, in times of real panic many people would throw all the training to the wayside and be in survival panic mode. Many more murders would occur IMO. Especially in dark places like shotty clubs (where people would be drunk to boot) and movie theaters. And children should never carry guns, so school shootings would still occur as well, perhaps a teacher or two would shoot him before too much damage is done, but damage will still be done. Not only that but I think the last thing we need in schools, especially elementary and junior high, are deadly weapons. Is that the state our country is in these days? You gotta secure your kids elementary school like it's a state prison with armed CO's (the armed teachers) and security guards? I know the world is ever evolving, but back in my day, that was never even a debate because it wasn't necessary. Poor high schools in gang ridden areas that have problems with gangster students and their violence and bringing weapons to school on a semi daily basis, then yes, I understand the need for security guards, metal detectors and even the idea of armed teachers. Those kinds of situations and those gangster idiot kids bring that upon themselves, but an ordinary school out in the suburbs or whatever that has no issues or history with violence? I don't think we need to turn schools into that.

And that is my main point. Any innocents, especially children who get killed over it, deems it not ok to me. Small groups that ruin it for everyone is a true statement for many things in life, and I can agree with that statement in general terms, but when it comes to guns, I think that small group has done more than enough to need a change.

I have nothing against responsible gun owners. I have had friends who were gun owners and would go shooting out in the range and hunt and whatnot. I am just putting up the logical argument that no one really needs guns and if we need to ban guns to save innocent lives, then I would rather do that then let the guns just stick around for it to keep happening.

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